Right now , if you want to acknowledge about Kang ’s future in the Marvel Cinematic Universe , the individual to talk to is Jeff Loveness . Loveness , best known for hiswork on Rick & Morty , not only wrote Marvel ’s current hitAnt - Man and the Wasp : Quantumania , he ’s also writingAvengers : The Kang Dynasty , the fifth Avengers film currently set for waiver May 2 , 2025 . And since that script is still being worked on , technically Loveness probably get laid just a tiny bit more about it than even the man who hired him , Marvel Studios Chief Executive Kevin Feige .
Earlier this week , Loveness took a break from formulating the next Avengers dangerous undertaking to talk to io9 about all of his Marvel exploit . We talk over plant the table for Phase Five of the Marvel Cinematic Universe , the choices that go into Quantumania ’s ending , how many Avengers Kang has killed , and what it ’s likewriting The Kang Dynastyusing characters and stories fan wo n’t see for years .
This interview was edited for length and lucidness .
Image: Marvel Studios
Germain Lussier , io9 : When you were hired to compose Quantumania , how aware were you that this celluloid was depart to be such a table setter for Phase Five and the overarching grandness of Kang ?
Jeff Loveness : Oh , I mean , I just see it as one picture show . I ’m not part of the inner camarilla [ of Marvel ] that encounter underneath the Vatican or something [ laughs ] . I ’m not part of that Volturi vampire enclave or something . I just tried to look at it as “ Hey , you got an chance to write a really fun risky venture drollery movie with a compelling baddie played by literally the best player in the man right now . ” I think as shortly as you start looking down the road , you get in trouble . So I tried to lay down a few train data track , but the job for me was “ Make Kang compelling and make this movie fun and keep it moving . ”
io9 : So when you sign on , you did n’t know it was going to be this self-aggrandising introduction to Phase Five ?
Jeff Loveness, writer of Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania and Avengers: The Kang Dynasty.Image: Marvel Studios
Loveness : Oh I do n’t know what phase we ’re on .
io9 : [ Laughs ]
Loveness : I have heard the full term “ Phase Five ” more in the last two month than [ the integral sentence making the picture show . ] [ Laughs ] No , I conceive that ’s more of almost a thing for the cyberspace than anything . Like , obviously there are 30 Marvel movies . You want them to touch base . You want to move them into the next phase , which this is the beginning of . We ’ve get a plan and it ’s going to be very exciting with Avengers . But in the back of my header , I ’m a nipper from a little town of like 200 people . We did n’t even have a movie theater in my townsfolk . So in the back of my head I thought “ My cousin ’s going to go look on this . Who hump if he ’s see Loki ? allow ’s just make a fun motion-picture show . ” Even if you just have a go at it who Paul Rudd is , you kind of get what ’s run on . Context clues will avail you out with the rest .
Loveness on set with Kathryn Newton.Image: Marvel Studios
[ Note : The rest of the audience should be deliberate massive spoilers ]
io9 : Now , when Hope goes back to save Scott , I thought there was a chance they might get stuck together in the Quantum Realm . Obviously , Cassie then save them but was there ever any treatment of them getting bewilder as a bigger cliffhanger ?
Loveness : Yeah . We always , especially in those third deed , you stake out all those things . You shift them out . It ’s a lot of story circles from the old Dan Harmon school of trying to do what feels ripe for the arcs and all that . And , yeah , certainly , that ’s an avenue we discuss . But I mean at the end of the Clarence Day there was no acquiring around “ Oh , it ’s Ant - Man stick in the Quantum Realm again . ” And I think that form of killed it . As much as that is knock-down stuff and as much as that is exciting and wild-eyed — and certainly I ’m a fan of that as well , and we had talk about these things — I think the ending that we have , especially on second viewings , is going to actually land in ways that maybe [ finger ] a little more subtle . Because if Ant - Man is bind in the Quantum Realm again , we have quite literally already seen that at the end of the 2nd movie . Then it ’s the same accurate beat in whatever Avengers becomes . It ’s like , “ Oh yeah , he ’s out of the Quantum Realm again , propelling the plot forward . ” It felt like it was n’t going to give us new avenues .
Whereas this one … I remember it ’s really cooler to have the guy who was so carefree and who thought his heroical day were behind him now ends the movie like Frodo coming back to the shire horse . You had your escapade , but you ’re not the same guy anymore . You do n’t have that rest of judgment . And as much as you require to eat on that cake and essay to give your daughter that false birthday , you know that perhaps you messed up . I retrieve a compelling thing is that the guy who quite literally saved the universe in the last form might incidentally be the bozo who have sex up the Multiverse in this stage . Like , permit ’s see in the hereafter . We ’ll see what find , mankind .
io9 : Well , if anyone eff it ’s you . Now , one of the big lines that Marvel used to raise the movie was Kang ask Scott if he ’d killed them before , because he ’s killed so many Avengers . You ca n’t say something like that in an MCU flick without fans get down to speculate . So did you figure out which Avengers he has wipe out or how many times he ’s killed certain ones , or is that just kind of out there and maybe gets answer at some compass point ?
Loveness : I think that ’s a air that only Kang can say and that was one of the first short letter I ever pen for him . That really helped me get the articulation of this character and that was one of the first things we ever practise . And I was very nervous because with a less role player … I was like , “ I think this could be a keen line or it could be downright shitty . Let ’s see how this feel . ” And Jonathan Majors walks up in that first rehearsal and he just read it with a shuddery smell . And I just remember the thrill in my top dog of like , “ Oh , I think this is going to work . ” This guy can deliver phone line like , “ I will burn you out of clock time . ” He can say those thing and actually bring it and in reality intend it .
The ending of Quantumania.Image: Marvel Studios
The joy of the character is that we get to stick in him in a non - elongate fashion . This is not a Kang origin story . This is a bozo who ’s been around the block a lot . Like he said , “ I do n’t live in a straight line . ” And so I cogitate the pleasure of the fictional character is we ’re meet him kind of at the tail end of something . And so you get to paint a lot of tapestry . But will he kill Thor ? Has he killed Thor ? How many Thor has he kill ? That is something that will be , you know , peradventure search further . We ’ll see .
io9 : Speaking of Kang , evidently you ’re writing him again in Avengers : The Kang Dynasty . That ’s got to be an interesting procedure because you ’re writing this movie based on all these other movies , most of which do n’t be yet . Some of them live in different forms but in others , there are no actors , no managing director . What ’s it like write a movie when you have all this sorting of raw material that ’s not even shape yet ?
Loveness : Yeah , it ’s definitely a tricky thing . But much like when I took on this Ant - Man job , I ca n’t really focus on that external clobber . I have just got to lie down the bones of a well story , hopefully , and find the theatrical role that I want to distinguish [ it ] . And then it becomes a plot of ping pong with the other people . Like whoever comes on and does Fantastic Four or Blade or — I’m in all probability not even using those character reference , you know — but it all inform itself . And so , you just keep an ear open if [ someone says ] , “ Hey , if Blade desire to jump in , go for it , piece . ” But it ’s up to me to focus on my movie and , you know , work on with [ Michael ] Waldron a little turn on his thing [ notice : Waldron is compose the following Avengers movie , Secret Wars ] to verify it all kind of makes signified . But I think the 2d you start look at the 25 other movies coming out , you get a niggling lost in the sauce .
Jonathan Majors as Kang.Image: Marvel Studios
io9 : And how much is that collaborationism happening between you anddirector Destin Daniel Cretton , especially this early ?
Loveness : Oh , he ’s been there since like day one when I fare in to auction pitch and he ’s dandy . Have you seen Short Term 12 ?
io9 : Oh , I’m quoted in the trailer . I love it so much .
Loveness : Oh , wonderful . I went to see that in a dramaturgy and I recollect I was one of the only multitude in there , it was late into its trial in some Laemmle theater in LA and like , valet de chambre , that vista where Lakeith Stanfield in the end open up to Brie Larson and stuff ? It ’s so intimately directed . You feel like you ’re there . And I think Destin is going to be wondrous with especially handling Kang , because he ’s a character that can be very quiet and very solitary and very broken and then passionate and drive . So like , I think Destin is the perfect guy to catch that range of emotion with him . So yeah . I was talking to him today , we ’ll see . I ’m very behind [ Laughs ] . I ’ve bewilder to get going .
io9 : You do that . Talk to you in a few years .
Ant - Man and the Wasp : Quantumania is now in theatre of operations . Avengers : The Kang Dynasty opens May 2 , 2025 .
Want more io9 newsworthiness ? Check out when to expect the latestMarvel , Star Wars , andStar Trekreleases , what ’s next for theDC Universe on movie and TV , and everything you need to know about the next ofDoctor Who .
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